Konica Hexar RF got problems taking Leica lens?


nightwolf75

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Dec 18, 2003
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hi folks!

i was doing some research on RF film bodies when i came across a reference on the Konica Hexar RF on Cameraquest's website saying that Hexar has problems taking in Leica lenses.

can anyone please enlighten me? is this a real problem? sorry... haven't really come across any Hexar RF cameras before. so i am quite blur about it, apart from what i read online.... :embrass:
 

hi folks!

i was doing some research on RF film bodies when i came across a reference on the Konica Hexar RF on Cameraquest's website saying that Hexar has problems taking in Leica lenses.

can anyone please enlighten me? is this a real problem? sorry... haven't really come across any Hexar RF cameras before. so i am quite blur about it, apart from what i read online.... :embrass:

Leica connoisseurs are just upset that Leica cant produce an M that is as advanced as the Hexar RF up till date :devil:
 

:bsmilie::bsmilie::bsmilie:

I think if Konical Minolta was still in the camera making business today, their digital M would way advanced then the Leica M9

Imho the Hexar RF is still the most advanced RF till today, in terms, of shooting capabilities & it was made by the Japs in 1999. Imagine what they are pushing out in 2011 if they are still in the camera business.
I forsee at least a D700 standard in terms of noise control, processor etc. hahahaha!

I've used the Hexar RF, so did a couple of guys here as well, so far never really experienced infamous flange issue experienced by the Leitz connoisseurs.
I sold mine because it doesnt come in chrome!!! (champagne not counted!)
 

I think if Konical Minolta was still in the camera making business today, their digital M would way advanced then the Leica M9

Imho the Hexar RF is still the most advanced RF till today, in terms, of shooting capabilities & it was made by the Japs in 1999. Imagine what they are pushing out in 2011 if they are still in the camera business.
I forsee at least a D700 standard in terms of noise control, processor etc. hahahaha!

I've used the Hexar RF, so did a couple of guys here as well, so far never really experienced infamous flange issue experienced by the Leitz connoisseurs.
I sold mine because it doesnt come in chrome!!! (champagne not counted!)

thanks for the info! time to put some Hexars on my ebay watchlist... ;p
 

so much conflicting information about the Hexar RF online, eh :eek:

yep i agree its the most advanced M-mount film camera ever. even better than the M7 and Zeiss Ikon :bsmilie:

i shot about eight rolls with mine in the last week, i used various Summicron 50mm, Zeiss Planar 50mm, Elmarit 28mm ASPH, Avenon 28mm, Skopar 28mm Zeiss Biogon 28mm. shot at min. focus max. aperture. all lenses worked perfectly. no problems at all! :thumbsup:

eh... a noob in RF like me, cameraquest and Stephen Gandy are almost (?) like the oracle to me...

but nice to know the hexar works without problems. :)
 

eh... a noob in RF like me, cameraquest and Stephen Gandy are almost (?) like the oracle to me...

but nice to know the hexar works without problems. :)

If there is a problem with it, just sent it to Sony center at Wisma, the guys there will ship it off to Japan for servicing

Funny to know that people stay away from the Hexar RF because of the so called flange problem.

M9 got color cast vignetting on wide lens, SD card problems, shutter problems & many more I can name but so many people still buy it? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ok, a lot of smelly shoes are being thrown in my direction now............
 

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hi folks!

i was doing some research on RF film bodies when i came across a reference on the Konica Hexar RF on Cameraquest's website saying that Hexar has problems taking in Leica lenses.

can anyone please enlighten me? is this a real problem? sorry... haven't really come across any Hexar RF cameras before. so i am quite blur about it, apart from what i read online.... :embrass:

They are trying to create a Hexar character! Too bad....hexar doesnt have one :)

If there is a problem with it, just sent it to Sony center at Wisma, the guys there will ship it off to Japan for servicing

Funny to know that people stay away from the Hexar RF because of the so called flange problem.

M9 got color cast vignetting on wide lens, SD card problems, shutter problems & many more I can name but so many people still buy it? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ok, a lot of smelly shoes are being thrown in my direction now............

Chiifei says its call Leica Character ok!
 

If there is a problem with it, just sent it to Sony center at Wisma, the guys there will ship it off to Japan for servicing

Funny to know that people stay away from the Hexar RF because of the so called flange problem.

M9 got color cast vignetting on wide lens, SD card problems, shutter problems & many more I can name but so many people still buy it? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ok, a lot of smelly shoes are being thrown in my direction now............
i'm not sure if the "most technologically advanced" was always the draw to the people entering or manuvering around the film RF world... some ppl perfer mechanical, some opting for non-AE bodies, others perfer a higher mag rate, some perfer chrome...

personally, i have not met anyone who has said that they have owned a hex and faced the flange problem. but that been said, that's a sample of < 10 ppl.
They are trying to create a Hexar character! Too bad....hexar doesnt have one :)



Chiifei says its call Leica Character ok!
... without going into the digital, as that opens up a whole different can of worms, but limiting the scope to film bodies - Canon, Fujinon, Nikon, Jupiter, Konica, Leica, Leotax, Topcor, Voigtlander, Zeiss... they're all the same, they take photographs and capture moments. lenses and bodies - they all have their own character...
 

The Konica Hexar RF's film-flange distance issue is real. But the difference is so slight (0.2mm? 27.8 vs 28mm, IIRC) that most of the time, it does not have great impact on the image.

I have a few Leica M cameras (film and digital) and also have a Hexar RF which I like for the 0.6x VF (great for wide-angle lens). I tried focusing a few Leica M lenses with the Leica cameras and the Hexar RF, the focusing distance markings are very consistent among the Leica M's but always different from that on Hexar RF. I don't know if that is due to sample variations of cameras, or it is actually due to the reported film-flange distance issue.

Anyway, I google'd and found an interesting solution. 5-min work on the Hexar RF lens mounting ring and it gives focusing mark indistinguishable from all the other Leica M cameras. For those who own an Hexar RF and keen to try, can google (dante stella, Jack Flesher, photo.net) and have fun. Report back if same result is observed, or not.

Start reading from HERE
 

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If there is a problem with it, just sent it to Sony center at Wisma, the guys there will ship it off to Japan for servicing

Funny to know that people stay away from the Hexar RF because of the so called flange problem.

M9 got color cast vignetting on wide lens, SD card problems, shutter problems & many more I can name but so many people still buy it? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ok, a lot of smelly shoes are being thrown in my direction now............

Dante Stella said similar thing too :bsmilie:

"Probably in shock at the idea that you could suddenly use Leica glass while jettisoning a lot of the historical baggage, they immediately derided the Hexar, speculating that it was unreliable (while all the while sending their Ms for mandatory service every couple of years)."

"Some Leica people spoke in more conciliatory tones — that the Hexar would serve as a good "second body." This was a politically-correct shibboleth; you could have your Hexar as long as you shelled out for a Leica. It's kind of like saying it's okay to have your hot mistress as long as you keep your ugly wife."

http://www.dantestella.com/technical/hexarrf.html
 

Yeah I've read that about the film-flange distance as well. But its just internet hogwash. A difference of 0.20mm in the film-flange is actually huge, and using Leica spec lenses on an M-mount camera with a film-flange distance of 28mm would result in such severe front focusing that even the most laymen of laymen would notice something was wrong. Here's why.

On a Nikon rangefinder, the correct film-flange is 34.50mm and there are shims in between the focus helicoid and the camera body to ensure the right spacing. I once experimented and removed the shims and took some photos. Severe back focusing. I then installed 0.10mm shims. Focus was good. I then swapped the shims for 0.20mm shims. I got bad front focusing. I then added the 0.10mm shims for a total of 0.30mm of shims (0.20mm more than needed). The front focusing was so bad the camera was unusable. That was on a camera with a register (film-flange distance) of 34.50mm. On a camera that is supposed to have a register of 27.80mm but is actually 28mm, the focus error would be even worse.

I suspect the Hexar RF got a bad rap initially because of a few slightly misaligned RFs, and because well, its not a Leica ;)

Edited to add: you can actually prove this for yourself. Add 0.20mm of metal tape to the mount on your M-mount camera. Attach a lens, and then adjust the RF so that infinity lines up. Go take some photos and look at the results. I guarantee you that nothing will be in focus.

I alos just remembered that Amedeo, the guy that makes the Nikon to Leica and Contax to Leica adapters, once told me that he has to get the thickness of his adapters to within 0.05mm of spec, otherwise they just won't work.

This is interesting: in my last post, I missed out what I did to the RF lens mount:- unscrew it, and remove the 4 thin shims underneath the lens mount (tip as suggested by Jack Flesher). According to him, the thickness of these shims are 0.2mm:)

Whether it's internet hogwash or not, my hacked-RF now focuses properly, just as my Leica M (actually, still shoot pass infinity a little bit, but the near focusing accuracy is more important to me.) Well, YMMV.
 

If the shims you removed really were 0.20mm, your camera wouldn't focus well at all.

I used this to measure my shims so I can be sure exactly how thick they were.

I can't be sure about the 0.2mm claim as I don't have the gauge to measure it accurately.

I presume you have an RF. If you care to take out the shims and measure them, we could then get first-hand data (1 sample only though).

Maybe I shouldn't have posted on this issue at all. There seem to be a few happy Rf owners around. Let's hope they won't start checking their RF's focusing accuracy.
 

Great to see all the info from here. And great to hear from Jon as well as I plan on packing on a leica lens cap onto my hexar one of these days :)
 

Hi Anxin, I'm interested to learn more about your camera and how you modified it, and think an open discussion would benefit anyone who's interested. As for people checking the accuracy of their RFs, there's nothing wrong with that ;) But my advice is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". So with your Hexar RF, did you just remove the shims? Or did you remove the shims and then adjust the RF alignment to match the new register (this is a critical point)?

I've been thinking about this overnight, and think that just removing the shims, but not adjusting the RF alignment to match the new register, doesn't do anything except increase the camera's minimum focusable distance and make the focus and RF alignment overshoot infinity when the lens itself is set to infinity. The reason is that the camera's RF is still adjusted for the previous register and the transmission of movement of the lens to the rangefinder is linear. I'll explain in more detail later.

As for the thickness of the shims, I'll pop mine out and measure them tonight!

For the example of my Hexar RF, before the mod, all leica lenses back-focus (can't recall how much, but definitely more than 1~2 inch.). Infinity very slightly off (overshoot)
Follow Jack Flesher's hack, removed all the shims (mine actually has 5 of them, 2 pieces on the right-bottom, the rest single shim), no further RF adjustment, focus accurately from 0.7m to ~20m, infinity overshot quite a bit but that is not that bad a thing for me.

I suspect mine could be that bad example of the early batch but I don't know how to check...
 

What would qualify as an early production Hexar RF?
 


I shot this with the Canon 50mm F0.95 wide open:
4544002550_acb67fdfaa_z.jpg


Had no focusing issues on my previous Hexar RF